Caedes, as to what seraphim meant by so called 'natural disasters', he said on page 16: "I guess I would define a natural disaster by the affect an exterior natural event has on people in terms of pain, suffering and death. So unless an earthquake actually affects [people for ill], it isn’t a natural disaster."
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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watchtowers army assault on our vulnerable elderly in nursing homes
by friendaroonie inits been a long time since i have been this enraged at the evilness and shameless exploitation by the jws.
i just got back from the meeting (dont ask) and sat through the km article laying out plans to mass convert nursing homes all over the world.
i am not going to labor the obvious ethical travesty of this plan but i will say that it constitutes a major public health risk.
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defender of truth
Thanks Flipper, it's really nice to hear about such proactive ways of helping the elderly, at least while they're laughing they are not just sat there vegitating. I need a stiff whiskey after going into some nursing homes, I find them more depressing than funerals or cemetaries, the level of care is sickening at times.. Anywho, cheers for the encouragement;)
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Disturbing Footnote in Tomorrow's Study Article...
by HeyThere inarticle is basicqlly about families where a spouse is working away from home for an extended period, etc...a foot note says basically that some studies have shown that working away from home can cause serious consequences, such as infidelity, homosexuality, or incest.
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pull it up on jw.org...that is what it says.
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defender of truth
"Wild_Thingposteda day ago(6/22/2014)
Post656of685
Joined7/9/2002
Marking in case someone finds a link to the these supposed "studies". "
This person's post motivated me. Also, I thought that it may be of interest to try and find a source. Don't worry, I won't be wasting another second of my time or yours trying to be helpful.
Back on topic..
Excellent reasoning from Oubliette. -
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watchtowers army assault on our vulnerable elderly in nursing homes
by friendaroonie inits been a long time since i have been this enraged at the evilness and shameless exploitation by the jws.
i just got back from the meeting (dont ask) and sat through the km article laying out plans to mass convert nursing homes all over the world.
i am not going to labor the obvious ethical travesty of this plan but i will say that it constitutes a major public health risk.
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defender of truth
He agreed that someone should write a letter. I typed my letter out on a crappy old phone and posted it to help others. I then even sent a pm to let him know I had done as had been suggested. I have had no response, either in the thread or by pm. Maybe it's my upbringing or culture, but to me it is the height of rudeness to completely ignore someone. I'd rather be told 'look mate, your letter stinks, your idea stinks, but thanks anyway'. That I can deal with.He's been posting on JWN plently since then, it's not as though he has not been active. And don't tell me to get off my high horse, who do you think you are? Only 3 days ago, he and one or two other people (I've pm'ed all of them) sounded motivated and ready to do something about an issue they were concerned. Now, when I suggest something solid that might make a difference, it's *crickets*. There are many empty words spoken on this forum, that is what I have learnt. This threads done anyway.
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48
watchtowers army assault on our vulnerable elderly in nursing homes
by friendaroonie inits been a long time since i have been this enraged at the evilness and shameless exploitation by the jws.
i just got back from the meeting (dont ask) and sat through the km article laying out plans to mass convert nursing homes all over the world.
i am not going to labor the obvious ethical travesty of this plan but i will say that it constitutes a major public health risk.
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defender of truth
"DATA-DOG posted 3 days ago(6/20/2014) Post 5361 of 5382 Joined 6/21/2012 I agree that an appropriately worded letter would be a great idea. The directors of activities at various nursing homes deserve the opportunity to examine the facts about the ORG. " Funny how you thought it was a good idea, yet when I posted an entire letter, you didn't comment, even when I pm'd you to let you know. I've learnt a lot from these threads
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"God can either move you out of the way of the lightning, change where the lightning will strike, or warn you not to go out in the first place. Sometimes people get premonitions of danger and so don’t get on the plane that will later crash for example. With this method free will is not affected, as the person still has a choice to ignore the warning or not. "
This was what you stated on page 17. You admit that God could intervene in a disaster without affecting anyone's free will. -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Seraphim, do not derail the thread with a baseless and childish provocative post like that. What does Cofty's personal life have to do with this topic?! Any more where that came from and I will decide you are a troll and ignore you.
Let's try again. If it is 'eminently logical' to link disasters with free will, you should be able to explain it clearly and simply. Please do so without trying to divert attention.
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"So it also keeps suffering to a minimum when one thinks about it. Certain chemicals that block pain when an organism is under attack more than likely also minimise suffering in the shark."
Do animals feel pain?
"If it is justifiable to assume that other human beings feel pain as we do, is there any reason why a similar inference should not be justifiable in the case of other animals?Nearly all the external signs that lead us to infer pain in other humans can be seen in other species, especially the species most closely related to us--the species of mammals and birds. The behavioral signs include writhing, facial contortions, moaning, yelping or other forms of calling, attempts to avoid the source of the pain, appearance of fear at the prospect of its repetition, and so on. In addition, we know that these animals have nervous systems very like ours, which respond physiologically like ours do when the animal is in circumstances in which we would feel pain:"
"The nervous systems of animals evolved as our own did, and in fact the evolutionary history of human beings and other animals, especially mammals, did not diverge until the central features of our nervous systems were already in existence. A capacity to feel pain obviously enhances a species' prospects for survival, since it causes members of the species to avoid sources of injury. It is surely unreasonable to suppose that nervous systems that are virtually identical physiologically, have a common origin and a common evolutionary function, and result in similar forms of behavior in similar circumstances should actually operate in an entirely different manner on the level of subjective feelings. "
"To say that they feel less because they are lower animals is an absurdity; it can easily be shown that many of their senses are far more acute that ours--visual acuity in certain birds, hearing in most wild animals, and touch in others; these animals depend more than we do today on the sharpest possible awareness of a hostile environment. Apart from the complexity of the cerebral cortex (which does not directly perceive pain) their nervous systems are almost identical to ours and their reactions to pain remarkably similar"
http://www.animal-rights-library.com/texts-m/singer03.htm -
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Disturbing Footnote in Tomorrow's Study Article...
by HeyThere inarticle is basicqlly about families where a spouse is working away from home for an extended period, etc...a foot note says basically that some studies have shown that working away from home can cause serious consequences, such as infidelity, homosexuality, or incest.
.
pull it up on jw.org...that is what it says.
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defender of truth
I wasn't saying they were right to generalise, but this may be the kind of reports they are basing their generalisations on. Nobody else seemed to want to even look for what they were possibly basing the wild assertions on. Sorry if I was unclear.
"Incest has become common On March 11, 2007 Veronica Uy of INQUIRER.netreported: "As more Filipino mothers leave for work abroad, incest between a daughter and the father who are left behind has become an emerging social problem."In connection with the International Women's Day, Philippine Senator Pia Cayetano called public attention to "an emerging problem in labor-exporting countries like the Philippines." The senator noted that "older daughters of women OFWs are made to take on the roles left by their mother, sometimes as 'substitute spouses'" (ibid.)." http://www.ucg.org/commentary/family-break-ups-plague-filipino-migrant-workers/ -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Sorry s23, I meant please give a specific example of someone's being protected from harm in a natural disaster, and how it impinged on their free will. If God protected me from being killed by lightning, for example, I would not particularly mind. I would not be complaining to the European court of human rights that my right to freedom had been restricted..;)